並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/%E5%93%88%E5%88%A9%E6%B3%A2%E7%89%B9-%E6%B6%88%E5%A4%B1%E7%9A%84%E5%AF%86%E5%AE%A4-ep-17-%E5%8F%B2%E8%90%8A%E5%93%B2%E6%9E%97%E7%9A%84%E5%82%B3%E4%BA%BA/id1536391846?i=1000542716869
